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	<title>Comments on: Making Buses Cool Again</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Seth Masia</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-189892</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Masia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-189892</guid>
		<description>Why use diesel engines? If you have dedicated lanes, we can revive the trolley bus and run all-electric.  See
http://ases.org/index.php?option=com_myblog&amp;show=Trucking-plans-for-a-railroaded-future.html&amp;Itemid=27</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why use diesel engines? If you have dedicated lanes, we can revive the trolley bus and run all-electric.  See<br />
<a href="http://ases.org/index.php?option=com_myblog&amp;show=Trucking-plans-for-a-railroaded-future.html&amp;Itemid=27" rel="nofollow">http://ases.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>index.php?option=com_myblog&amp;show=Trucking-plans-for-a-railroaded-future.html&amp;Itemid=27</a></p>
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		<title>By: Summer Bartholemew</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-106653</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer Bartholemew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-106653</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m thrilled to read this story. I just got back from Bogota last week. Yes, the traffic was horrible despite the fact that everyday 40 per cent of the city&#039;s cars are off the road (this is a result of the many streets undergoing repaving or some sort of renovation or expansion.. at a snails pace, I might add.)  And riding the transmillenio was like riding on a San Francisco BART train during rush-hour.. packed! But what was most amazing was the fact that the air was SO CLEAN!! From Monserrate or from El Parque Simon Bolivar you could see for ever. You could clearly see all the mountains that surround the city and the sky was the most amazing shade of blue. To me it&#039;s almost unbelievable that a major city&#039;s air could be so clean. It did rain while I was there.. which of course helped clean the air.. but I still can&#039;t believe how clean that air was. I was expecting.. L.A. type smog... but instead got really good air quality. KUDOS to the folds that made it happen in Bogota!  There&#039;s hope for other cities throughout the world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m thrilled to read this story. I just got back from Bogota last week. Yes, the traffic was horrible despite the fact that everyday 40 per cent of the city&#8217;s cars are off the road (this is a result of the many streets undergoing repaving or some sort of renovation or expansion.. at a snails pace, I might add.)  And riding the transmillenio was like riding on a San Francisco BART train during rush-hour.. packed! But what was most amazing was the fact that the air was SO CLEAN!! From Monserrate or from El Parque Simon Bolivar you could see for ever. You could clearly see all the mountains that surround the city and the sky was the most amazing shade of blue. To me it&#8217;s almost unbelievable that a major city&#8217;s air could be so clean. It did rain while I was there.. which of course helped clean the air.. but I still can&#8217;t believe how clean that air was. I was expecting.. L.A. type smog&#8230; but instead got really good air quality. KUDOS to the folds that made it happen in Bogota!  There&#8217;s hope for other cities throughout the world!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Fredericks</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99923</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Fredericks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99923</guid>
		<description>Re: The Orange Line BRT. You definitely make some intriguing points on why there should be LRT service along the Orange Line now, but I would hardly call it a failure. The fact that the system far exceeded ridership projections and has crowded busses at many points during the day is something that most places could only dream of. It&#039;s a one-of-a-kind type of system in the US (even though there are other systems, none are like this) and it provides a good example of how BRT can be done.

Aside from the Gold Line LRT, most LRT systems around the country are horrible. I&#039;ve ridden many (if not most) of them, and live in a city that has a system. In most cities, they are a hybrid of commuter rail and streetcar, and combining the two doesn&#039;t work. Commuter rail needs limited stops and fast service, and streetcar is slower and more localized--LRT often tries to do both. The Orange Line is a unique specimen in that it connects to a subway. If it went all the way to Downtown LA, it would be just as horrible as most LRT systems when going on the streets.

I think you&#039;d really have to do a costs/benefits/pollutants analysis to determine just how &quot;bad&quot; the Orange Line is. I think when you look at the whole picture (and factor in the LRT experience around the country), I think it&#039;s probably a lot better than you give it credit for. Oh, and the Orange Line BRT is definitely not in a dense area and it&#039;s a way more comfortable ride than most LRT or subway systems I&#039;ve been on (aside from the sardines part, but real transit systems have that problem).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: The Orange Line BRT. You definitely make some intriguing points on why there should be LRT service along the Orange Line now, but I would hardly call it a failure. The fact that the system far exceeded ridership projections and has crowded busses at many points during the day is something that most places could only dream of. It&#8217;s a one-of-a-kind type of system in the US (even though there are other systems, none are like this) and it provides a good example of how BRT can be done.</p>
<p>Aside from the Gold Line LRT, most LRT systems around the country are horrible. I&#8217;ve ridden many (if not most) of them, and live in a city that has a system. In most cities, they are a hybrid of commuter rail and streetcar, and combining the two doesn&#8217;t work. Commuter rail needs limited stops and fast service, and streetcar is slower and more localized&#8211;LRT often tries to do both. The Orange Line is a unique specimen in that it connects to a subway. If it went all the way to Downtown LA, it would be just as horrible as most LRT systems when going on the streets.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;d really have to do a costs/benefits/pollutants analysis to determine just how &#8220;bad&#8221; the Orange Line is. I think when you look at the whole picture (and factor in the LRT experience around the country), I think it&#8217;s probably a lot better than you give it credit for. Oh, and the Orange Line BRT is definitely not in a dense area and it&#8217;s a way more comfortable ride than most LRT or subway systems I&#8217;ve been on (aside from the sardines part, but real transit systems have that problem).</p>
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		<title>By: Interurbans</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99705</link>
		<dc:creator>Interurbans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99705</guid>
		<description>BRT’s are not the answer for dense routes. If the daily ridership is above around 15,000 riders a rail alternative is a much better choice. If a LRT line was built to the same standards as the Bogota and Curitiba BRT systems the cost of construction and equipment would be one third more but the cars would last at least twice as long, cost less than half as much to operate carry doubly the riders much more comfortable with less pollution because they operate on electricity not imported oil and would probably operate much faster.   

There is not a successful BRT line in the US that was built on a privet right of way. Miami, Pittsburg, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles are all failures. 

The Orange Bus Line was a failure from the start. It was at capacity and could not begin to handle the required ridership. The busses are small and cramped inside though very heavy, rough riding and very difficult to handle a wheelchair. Capacity can not be increased do to blocking traffic of the cross streets. It now takes twice as long to make the trip that it would if it were a light rail line. It cost three times as much to carry a passenger on the Orange bus as it does on a LRT train in Los Angeles. LRT trains use electricity and do not require imported oil based fuels including CNG with less pollution. The costs to service the busses and maintain the right of way is also higher than if it were a rail line. Because the busses are full, cramped and uncomfortable, many people who would be riding an Orange Line LRT train are now driving. The Orange bus line is a failure, not the successes that it is touted to be.  

PRT, Monorail and other gadgetbahns do not have the capacity needes for moving high volumes of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BRT’s are not the answer for dense routes. If the daily ridership is above around 15,000 riders a rail alternative is a much better choice. If a LRT line was built to the same standards as the Bogota and Curitiba BRT systems the cost of construction and equipment would be one third more but the cars would last at least twice as long, cost less than half as much to operate carry doubly the riders much more comfortable with less pollution because they operate on electricity not imported oil and would probably operate much faster.   </p>
<p>There is not a successful BRT line in the US that was built on a privet right of way. Miami, Pittsburg, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles are all failures. </p>
<p>The Orange Bus Line was a failure from the start. It was at capacity and could not begin to handle the required ridership. The busses are small and cramped inside though very heavy, rough riding and very difficult to handle a wheelchair. Capacity can not be increased do to blocking traffic of the cross streets. It now takes twice as long to make the trip that it would if it were a light rail line. It cost three times as much to carry a passenger on the Orange bus as it does on a LRT train in Los Angeles. LRT trains use electricity and do not require imported oil based fuels including CNG with less pollution. The costs to service the busses and maintain the right of way is also higher than if it were a rail line. Because the busses are full, cramped and uncomfortable, many people who would be riding an Orange Line LRT train are now driving. The Orange bus line is a failure, not the successes that it is touted to be.  </p>
<p>PRT, Monorail and other gadgetbahns do not have the capacity needes for moving high volumes of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Alek F</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99698</link>
		<dc:creator>Alek F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99698</guid>
		<description>Nice article,
but it&#039;s a bit one-sided...
How about mentioning some of the drawbacks, to be more objective?
Limited capacity, lower speeds, MUCH lower safety ratings, bumpy ride - are just to name a few. Oh yeah, and high operating costs is another significant drawback.
Our own Orange Line BRT (in Los Angeles) is a clear indicator of how &quot;innovative&quot; and &quot;wonderful&quot; those sardine-packed lousy buses are, giving an uncomfortable, lousy ride, and which takes almost twice as long than it would take for a train to get from North Hollywood to Warner Center. (and - don&#039;t you just love this pathetic slow-downs before almost every intersection? - which adds up to the already long commute).
All in all, BRT is just a mediocre service, not comparable to efficiency and appeal of Light-Rail or Subway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article,<br />
but it&#8217;s a bit one-sided&#8230;<br />
How about mentioning some of the drawbacks, to be more objective?<br />
Limited capacity, lower speeds, MUCH lower safety ratings, bumpy ride &#8211; are just to name a few. Oh yeah, and high operating costs is another significant drawback.<br />
Our own Orange Line BRT (in Los Angeles) is a clear indicator of how &#8220;innovative&#8221; and &#8220;wonderful&#8221; those sardine-packed lousy buses are, giving an uncomfortable, lousy ride, and which takes almost twice as long than it would take for a train to get from North Hollywood to Warner Center. (and &#8211; don&#8217;t you just love this pathetic slow-downs before almost every intersection? &#8211; which adds up to the already long commute).<br />
All in all, BRT is just a mediocre service, not comparable to efficiency and appeal of Light-Rail or Subway.</p>
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		<title>By: Eduardo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99695</link>
		<dc:creator>Eduardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99695</guid>
		<description>Joe excellent post, is always nice to hear good things about my country.

I want to tell you that if you want more imformation about the BRT projects that are in development in other cities, I will be glad to send you more information.

We have already to other cities with BRT (Cali and Pereira) and in other 4 major cities BRT systems are under construction.

Transmilenio is a very good initiative (It has some problems) but it is a good and cheap alternative to fight pollution and global warming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe excellent post, is always nice to hear good things about my country.</p>
<p>I want to tell you that if you want more imformation about the BRT projects that are in development in other cities, I will be glad to send you more information.</p>
<p>We have already to other cities with BRT (Cali and Pereira) and in other 4 major cities BRT systems are under construction.</p>
<p>Transmilenio is a very good initiative (It has some problems) but it is a good and cheap alternative to fight pollution and global warming.</p>
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		<title>By: From Peru</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99664</link>
		<dc:creator>From Peru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99664</guid>
		<description>Leif, what &quot;new steam engine tecnology&quot; are you referring to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif, what &#8220;new steam engine tecnology&#8221; are you referring to?</p>
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		<title>By: Leif</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99661</link>
		<dc:creator>Leif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99661</guid>
		<description>I tried to post a link but no dice.  Google &quot;Cyclone Power&quot;  Way cool technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to post a link but no dice.  Google &#8220;Cyclone Power&#8221;  Way cool technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99660</link>
		<dc:creator>Leif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99660</guid>
		<description>Lima sounds like a perfect place to start deploying this new steam engine technology.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lima sounds like a perfect place to start deploying this new steam engine technology.</p>
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		<title>By: From Peru</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/19/making-buses-cool-again-bus-rapid-transit-brt-bogota/#comment-99658</link>
		<dc:creator>From Peru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9219#comment-99658</guid>
		<description>Here at Lima, Peru, the buses are the MAIN polluters. These  were imported already with decades of use , reprocessed at homemade factories and then sold. There are thousands of this decade-long units. In some streets , there are more buses than cars.

The numbers are disastrous.Half of the peruvian cars and buses are trashed units( that is, the cars were  obsolete and some countries thought that selling their junk to our corrupt government  was a good opportunity to trash them while gaining lots of money), each one emitting huge plumes of dark smoke that cover tens of metres.

When there are only few clouds in the sky, the horizon is brown instead of blue even at noon!In my university there is a weather station, I was collecting the data of solar insolation in last 40 years.According to my first data, in recent years the smog dim nearly 50% of the sunshine.

The city major, Castañeda Lossio, is building a BRT corridor inside Lima. But he is doing it at an turle-like speed. The work is just the first stage , and should have been finished more than one year ago. It appears that may be finished in 2010. 

Meanwhile, the citicens of Lima will continue to suffocate in a fog made of soot(black carbon) and sulfate aerosols for a lot years more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here at Lima, Peru, the buses are the MAIN polluters. These  were imported already with decades of use , reprocessed at homemade factories and then sold. There are thousands of this decade-long units. In some streets , there are more buses than cars.</p>
<p>The numbers are disastrous.Half of the peruvian cars and buses are trashed units( that is, the cars were  obsolete and some countries thought that selling their junk to our corrupt government  was a good opportunity to trash them while gaining lots of money), each one emitting huge plumes of dark smoke that cover tens of metres.</p>
<p>When there are only few clouds in the sky, the horizon is brown instead of blue even at noon!In my university there is a weather station, I was collecting the data of solar insolation in last 40 years.According to my first data, in recent years the smog dim nearly 50% of the sunshine.</p>
<p>The city major, Castañeda Lossio, is building a BRT corridor inside Lima. But he is doing it at an turle-like speed. The work is just the first stage , and should have been finished more than one year ago. It appears that may be finished in 2010. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the citicens of Lima will continue to suffocate in a fog made of soot(black carbon) and sulfate aerosols for a lot years more.</p>
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