Comments on: “Cash for Clunkers” proves better for saving oil and CO2 — and for the economy — than predicted, so of course Senate GOP opposes it http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Mon, 22 Mar 2010 05:50:22 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: George http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101917 George Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:13:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101917 How many times will the auto industry be bailed out with our money? This money could have been shared by all of us in a refund. How many times will the auto industry be bailed out with our money? This money could have been shared by all of us in a refund.

]]> By: pete best http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101490 pete best Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:38:41 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101490 Oh yes I forgot. This peice on algae oil might just be able to achieve some very good results and to some degree help to rescue our plight if peak oil is right and those falls to occur. http://www.squarestate.net/diary/8394/biofuels-pilot-facility-opens-in-southwest-colorado 3000 Gallons per acre in a 2 acre plot for which I am presuming that the yield will be one crop per annum. 1000 acres would yield 3 million gallons if scaleable and successful. It even take water and CO2 from a coal bed methane plant. Nice 1 million acres will yield 3 billion gallons of oil. 20 Mb/d x 42 = 840,000,000 a day. How many acres of land in the USA alone would yield enough biooil/algoil etc ? Oh yes I forgot. This peice on algae oil might just be able to achieve some very good results and to some degree help to rescue our plight if peak oil is right and those falls to occur.

http://www.squarestate.net/ diary/ 8394/ biofuels-pilot-facility-opens-in-southwest-colorado

3000 Gallons per acre in a 2 acre plot for which I am presuming that the yield will be one crop per annum. 1000 acres would yield 3 million gallons if scaleable and successful. It even take water and CO2 from a coal bed methane plant. Nice

1 million acres will yield 3 billion gallons of oil. 20 Mb/d x 42 = 840,000,000 a day. How many acres of land in the USA alone would yield enough biooil/algoil etc ?

]]> By: pete best http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101488 pete best Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:27:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101488 A car uses 20% of it lifes energy usage in making it according to figures with an average mileage of 12000 a year and averge MPG of 22 over 12 years (the avergae lifetime of a USA car). (I am from Europe and not and American). Your oil usage is such compelling reading through. Peak oil would effect you guys most so you all need to try and halve your oil consumption. Can it happen through efficiency gains and new technologies in time to avert <2C climate change and the economic effects of peak oil? 6.7% drop means a 30 Mb/d day come 2020 85,000,000 (2009) 79,305,000 73,991,565 69,034,130 64,408,843 60,093,451 56,067,190 52,310,688 48,805,872 45,535,878 42,484,975 (2019) Huge falls at 6.7% drop per annum. A car uses 20% of it lifes energy usage in making it according to figures with an average mileage of 12000 a year and averge MPG of 22 over 12 years (the avergae lifetime of a USA car).

(I am from Europe and not and American). Your oil usage is such compelling reading through. Peak oil would effect you guys most so you all need to try and halve your oil consumption. Can it happen through efficiency gains and new technologies in time to avert <2C climate change and the economic effects of peak oil? 6.7% drop means a 30 Mb/d day come 2020

85,000,000 (2009)
79,305,000
73,991,565
69,034,130
64,408,843
60,093,451
56,067,190
52,310,688
48,805,872
45,535,878
42,484,975 (2019)

Huge falls at 6.7% drop per annum.

]]> By: Scatter http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101476 Scatter Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:42:43 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101476 I don't think it's irrelevant. Annual CO2 emissions and fuel consumption are important. I'm just saying that it's unlikely to be as simple as average mileage x mpg improvement = saving. I don’t think it’s irrelevant. Annual CO2 emissions and fuel consumption are important.

I’m just saying that it’s unlikely to be as simple as average mileage x mpg improvement = saving.

]]> By: Bob Wallace http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101419 Bob Wallace Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:07:57 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101419 Scatter - given that most cars/trucks are driven into the ground by someone before they get crunched, it's a fair guess that gas wasting guzzlers are going to their deaths sooner than they otherwise would. Whether vehicles are driven more or less miles per year as they age seems irrelevant. Nice thing is, since the poorest of us typically drive the oldest, highest mileage vehicles, down the road poorer people are going to have more high mileage choices than they otherwise would have had. Don't you really enjoy win-win-wins? Scatter – given that most cars/trucks are driven into the ground by someone before they get crunched, it’s a fair guess that gas wasting guzzlers are going to their deaths sooner than they otherwise would.

Whether vehicles are driven more or less miles per year as they age seems irrelevant.

Nice thing is, since the poorest of us typically drive the oldest, highest mileage vehicles, down the road poorer people are going to have more high mileage choices than they otherwise would have had.

Don’t you really enjoy win-win-wins?

]]> By: Scatter http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101409 Scatter Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:22:57 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101409 How far were those clunkers driven each year and how far are the new cars going to be driven? I suspect the former were driven a lot less than the latter will be. [<em>JR: The rules don't allow real clunkers. People were turning in SUVs and light trucks that you can't get a good trade in on.</em>] How far were those clunkers driven each year and how far are the new cars going to be driven? I suspect the former were driven a lot less than the latter will be.

[JR: The rules don't allow real clunkers. People were turning in SUVs and light trucks that you can't get a good trade in on.]

]]> By: Sasparilla http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101400 Sasparilla Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:29:47 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101400 It is really great when a program comes out and does much better than expected - I was really expecting it to have people buying terrible large cars, but the people aren't (for the most part). A nice little victory, time to sit back and savor it for a little while. It is really great when a program comes out and does much better than expected – I was really expecting it to have people buying terrible large cars, but the people aren’t (for the most part). A nice little victory, time to sit back and savor it for a little while.

]]> By: Bob Wallace http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101399 Bob Wallace Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:21:40 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101399 Pete #18, yes. So the break even point of oil used vs. oil saved drops even lower. This "more energy will be used to make the new car than is saved" seems like a very bogus item. Scanning the Edmunds list of eligible cars I saw none more recent than 2003 and most were 'last century'. Given an average life expectancy of 13 years lots of these clunkers were going to get replaced anyway. That energy would have been expended even without this program. Cash for Clunkers has apparently steered lots of people toward more efficient vehicles. And it surely has given the car business a shot in the arm when it was so badly needed. Pete #18, yes. So the break even point of oil used vs. oil saved drops even lower.

This “more energy will be used to make the new car than is saved” seems like a very bogus item.

Scanning the Edmunds list of eligible cars I saw none more recent than 2003 and most were ‘last century’. Given an average life expectancy of 13 years lots of these clunkers were going to get replaced anyway. That energy would have been expended even without this program.

Cash for Clunkers has apparently steered lots of people toward more efficient vehicles. And it surely has given the car business a shot in the arm when it was so badly needed.

]]> By: Pete O'Connor http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101385 Pete O'Connor Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:27:29 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101385 #16 -- Savinar is also using a figure based on total energy equivalent and not actual oil. "How many barrels of oil does it take to equal the energy consumed during 10% of a car’s lifetime? Let's see:" I'd think that the embodied energy in a new car is mostly from the steel production, which is in turn mostly coke (from coal) and electricity. #16 — Savinar is also using a figure based on total energy equivalent and not actual oil. “How many barrels of oil does it take to equal the energy consumed during 10% of a car’s lifetime? Let’s see:”

I’d think that the embodied energy in a new car is mostly from the steel production, which is in turn mostly coke (from coal) and electricity.

]]> By: dhogaza http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/04/cash-for-clunkers-benefits/#comment-101378 dhogaza Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:52:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/?p=9744#comment-101378 <blockquote>No, not “salvage” in the usual sense. In the auto business salvage means reused. Usable parts are pulled to keep similar models running. With this program the engines must be destroyed. A substance (I think containing silicon) is run through the engine until it is no longer usable. </blockquote> Yes, I should've said "except for the engine".

No, not “salvage” in the usual sense. In the auto business salvage means reused. Usable parts are pulled to keep similar models running.

With this program the engines must be destroyed. A substance (I think containing silicon) is run through the engine until it is no longer usable.

Yes, I should’ve said “except for the engine”.

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